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Hello and welcome to season two of My Queer Museum, a podcast about the queer objects and the queer stories that you won't find in your average museum or archive. I'm Roni Guetta. David Sheppeard and we had such a blast making season one of this podcast. It felt like we had just reached the tip of the iceberg of Brighton and Hove's interesting queer residents. It was just inspiring. So we felt like we had to continue recording even more of them. We really did. But before we meet our super interesting fourth guest for this season, we want to quickly tell you about our new online museum, Queer Heritage South. It's a community generated museum that you can visit anytime you want to discover interesting local queer collections and stories. And that you can contribute to very easily too. So look through your drawers of photographs, badges, Pride Memorial, take a picture of anything you like and upload.
And you can visit it at queerheritagesouth.co.uk. Hello, everyone, and welcome back to My Queer Museum. We're here with a very special guest today, Fox Fisher. Hi, Fox. How are you? Hi, really well, thank you. Lovely to speak to you both today. Same. Thanks for joining us. So My Queer Museum, the idea is that we have this ginormous, hugely expansive queer museum. It doesn't exist in reality, but it definitely exists in mine and Roni's imaginations. And today, Fox, we're welcoming you into our imaginations. And we're going to ask for your contributions to the Queer Museum of our dreams. So would you like to reveal to us what the first object you have selected to add to the My Queer Museum collection is?
Hi, I'm Fox, and I am a brown, queer, pansexual, non-binary, transmasculine artist, author, filmmaker, and LGBTQIA plus advocate. Amazing. An absolute icon of Brighton & Hove. We couldn't be without you. Thank you. So Fox, would you like to introduce your first object to the My Queer Museum business? Absolutely. And I really struggled, by the way, to find, not to find three, but to actually whittle it down to three. So I could have gone on different avenues, but I've chosen to go with some printed materials with the first two objects. So the first one that I wanted to share with you is A Queer Little Guide to Brighton from 2001. And it's a booklet that I helped put together when I was at Sussex University, when I was the co-chair for the LGBT society there.
And it was the first time that I really was able to merge worlds, where I was able to be part of a group, like an LGBT plus group, and be part of that. But also to learn how to use, well, it was Quark at the time, but, you know, publishing software so that I could put together a book. So I was really keen to learn how to do that so I could publish this book. And I think it was, if I remember rightly, James Ledwood, rest in power, James, he helped to publish this. So James is the old founder of GC, now called Scene Magazine, and he helped to publish this little booklet. And I've kind of, I've held off from actually taking a proper look at it, because I thought we could look at it together right now.
That sounds amazing. I'm going to describe the front cover for you both. Yeah. Okay. So it's a purple book. And I don't know why I'm laughing. We just chose to print it in purple, of course. And the little logo for it is meant to represent diversity, but it's actually two, two, like, you know, like the female toilet symbol or the male toilet symbol, you know, with the, like, one's wearing a skirt and one's wearing trousers. So we've got two, like, one's two little figures wearing skirts, holding hands, and two figures that are not wearing skirts, holding hands, and then a bunch of, like, heads behind them as well, like dots for heads. So just imagine that, that delightful vision. And then it says, 2001 slash two, diversity, the queer little guide to Brighton.
And then it says LGBT. And for each of the different letters, there's a photograph. So for Elle, I'm actually on the front cover getting protests married to the previous co-chair at Sussex University. So we're wearing, the person I'm getting protests married to is in a top hat, and we're both wearing suits. And it kind of looks like I've got dreads, but I don't think I do have dreads, thankfully. And then in the G, there's a couple who are embracing, and B, there's a couple that look to be masculine who are embracing. And then for T, we just have somebody who's got, you know, when you graduate, you have those, what are they called those things? A mortarboard hat. Mortarboard hat, exactly. There's somebody wearing a mortarboard hat with a T in front of them.
And I don't think they're trans or anything, but, you know, I think that we just, yeah, it was just a really early stages when it came to trans representation. And I was there representing the Elle at the time. And it's just interesting to see how far things have changed in the past 20 years. What a document of its time, 2001. What diversity looks like. Very binary toilet signs holding hands. Yeah. I know, right? Tell us a little bit about what it was like to be queer on the Sussex campus in 2001 and what that group was like. Because I wasn't Tarek, who I run Marlboro Productions with, co-chair at the time. Have I made that up? I actually got Tarek his, like Tarek took on the co-chair role after me.
So he did the year after that. And I actually got Tarek his job at the Marlboro as well. So I'm really proud of that because we knew each other at the time at the university. And it was nice to see him take on these roles that I was also very interested in. And he was just the perfect person for both of those places. So hopefully I was too because I also worked at the Marlboro. And, yeah, so that was all around that time. So kind of the early noughties. It was just to build up a picture. It was a very, very different time. And, of course, we were still in the shadow of Section 28, 2003, 2004 kind of time. So, yeah, we were definitely still in the shadow of that. And it felt actually quite rebellious to even have an LGBT group, you know, that we could all meet up at.
And I remember there was only one trans person that I knew of, a trans woman, that accessed the services there. And she had a lot going on, I remember. And I remember not really knowing how to help her better. You know, she was just really in crisis. And I don't think I was trained up about trans issues either. And, yeah, it was just a really difficult time. And I take my hat off to her for being able to really, you know, same with all the people who transitioned before me. I'm like, wow, you know, it's just so impressive because people managed to find who they were, you know, despite the fact that there was zero representation or very negative representation at that time. So, for me, yeah. And what was it like kind of going out in Brighton in 2001?
Because was this guide a kind of guide to the city, as it were, like the places you might want to go and drink or dance or do whatever? Yeah, I mean, I'm looking for those. And I can't even see that. It seems even pre... Oh, no, there's another page. Hang on a sec. Okay, so we've got LGBT Switchboard. We've got... Yeah, I mean, I can't really see either of those places. And, of course, I do remember those as venues. I used to work at the Candy Bar as well. So, yeah, it's not even listed there. So, it must have been pre-Candy Bar time. And, weirdly enough, the Marlborough is not mentioned. So, I don't know what was going on with this list. It just seems like a really very odd list. Classic student production.
Right? Yeah. Any of the venues that still exist today on that list? Legends or, you know, the Bulldog or... Oh, you know what? I'm being really silly. So, there is, like, a centre page. But then there's a page either side. So, I'm looking at the first page now. And this seems a bit more, like, we'd expect. So, we've got the Amsterdam, the Aquarium, Bedford Town. Oh, I remember the Aquarium. That place was strange. That was a strange... The Aquarium, they used to call it. Oh, yeah. Fun times. Yeah. So, we've got the Bulldog. We've got the Candy Bar. Charles Street. Dr. Brighton's, which is now gone as well. Yeah. And for me, Dr. Brighton's was the first gay bar that I ever went to as a teenager.
So, that meant a lot to me. And it was just... Yeah. It was wild. A long time. Very wild. Yeah, it was. It was strangely wild, considering it was just a pub, you know. But it was a place... It was all about the people, wasn't it? And I think it attracted some interesting characters, for sure. We've got the Harlequin there as well. Oh, yeah. Which was this transvestite space behind London Road, wasn't it? That's right. So, it's kind of on a... Like an off-the-beaten-track kind of place. And you wouldn't really know it was there if you didn't... You know, if you didn't know about... If you weren't hooked into this whole scene, I think. And you're right. It was a place where people used to go. And I remember chatting to somebody.
And they would... They were like a builder or something. And they were like... You know, at the weekends, I bring my duffel bag. I go to the Harlequin. I dress in the clothing that I want. And I have a great weekend. And then I come back on the Monday. And my wife doesn't know anything. So, it was like people were kind of exploring their identity there as well. And, yeah. It was an interesting place. We've got a couple of photos in the Queer and Brighton collection of nights at the Harlequin. I think they must be about sort of late 90s, early 2000s. So, it would be around this time. And, yeah. It definitely looks like a real melting pot of different kind of early... Early trans identities. Or earlier, at least in this modern period.
And then people that would probably identify as transvestites. And it was definitely... It seemed to be a kind of little... Yeah. Like a hub for that... For that people exploring those identities. Definitely. And it also had the world's smallest dance floor. Do you remember it? Amazing. So, yeah. As for other places, there's probably... I mean, I won't just like reel off everything. But we mentioned Pop Stars as well, which used to come to Brighton. It was like a London... I think it used to be at King's Cross Pop Stars. And they had... Apparently, the first and third Wednesday of every month was at the Ocean Rooms. And they had that. And the Ocean Rooms is shut down. I mean, it has been for a long time as well.
That's near to... Kind of near the Marlborough, isn't it? Yeah. Just Circus Street. It's around where the big new Circus Street development is. But, yeah. That's right. So many places. Where was your favourite? Where was your tribe? And why? Okay, okay. So, I think my favourites were probably the Marlborough because I worked there. And, you know, the reason I loved working there was because it was very, very social. And I could be out and not be spending a huge amount of money, but I could still be part of the scene. And, you know, it made me feel like I had something to do, you know. Because I think I'd feel quite anxious just going there on my own anyway. What was the identity of the Marlborough in 2001?
Because the Marlboroughs had so many incarnations. Yeah, you're right. I mean, the Marlborough was very much an old school lesbian bar back then. So, that was, you know, what you'd expect if you went there. And, of course, you know, they did accept other people coming in. But that was what it was known for. Was that in the CAF years or the Gabby year? There were several managers that kind of each left their thumbprint, I guess, on the pub. Who was the manager when you were there? And what were your... Sure. That was Dan, actually. Do you remember Dan? Oh, yes. Yes. Indeed. So, there was Dan. I think Cath took over after Dan, perhaps. And I remember Dan being super nice. And I didn't have much experience as a bar person.
But he took me on anyway. So, that was cool. And then we started doing these club nights called Lock-In. I don't know if you remember hearing about Lock-In at all. But it was... No. Oh, gosh. Well, it was back in the day when Revenge was not really excited about having women there at all. So, you could literally take your flyers for Lock-In, which was like a lesbian night, and give it to the bouncers. And if they saw anyone coming in that they thought might prefer Lock-In, they would say, Oh, here you go, love. Have one of these. And they would just actively encourage them to go somewhere else, which is just very odd. You know, not very financially viable. But it's... Yeah. It was very split back in the day.
And was this quite a messy night, Lock-In? Yeah. Lock-In was a lot of fun. It was... I think it was at the original Candy Bar location. It was... It was back then. It was called Club Fuck, which is just a delightful name for a club. True. Adorable. Yeah. So, lots of fun. It's been really nice to look through this with you. It's... Yeah. And then Sunday Sunday was going as well. So, that was quite a fun Sunday activity as well. Is there pictures in this little magazine, in this little listing magazine? There's no... There's just kind of icons. So, we've got a key where they can kind of break it down. So, the key has a little piece of cheese for cheesy. A little, like, yacht for cruisy. Oh, that's amazing.
Right? And an ear. An ear that says, loud. And then, like... Then a picture of, like, a kind of older person with spectacles. And it says, older clientele. Then they've got one with somebody wearing... Like, a little icon wearing a mortarboard. And it says, student-friendly. And then you've got a picture of, like, a stick person with trousers, person with dress. It says, mixed venue. Then one with a slightly larger stick man. It says, mostly men. And one with a larger stick woman. It says... Mostly tall people. Mostly tall women. Yeah, exactly. And then we've got... The last one on the key is a little martini glass that says, classy. Amazing. Very good. Amazing. So, were the students that you were dealing with out?
Were they coming out? Was it a pretty secretive society? What was it like, really, in 2001 at Sussex University? You know, it was a real mix. I think that the majority of people were just about exploring who they were. And maybe for the first time ever. So, you know, like me, they'd waited until university to properly come out. So, that's what we were dealing with. We'd kind of... We'd really big... When we had group sessions, we had, you know, lots and lots of people attending. But it was... You know, and the social aspect seemed really good. But it did seem quite separate from everything else. And we had a lot of safety protocols where if you saw someone in the street and they didn't say hi to you, then you weren't to say hi to them either.
Oh, that's an amazing document. So, we're going to have to come and get a scan of this document from you, Fox, at some point. And because I think it would be a great addition to the Queer Heritage South Archive as well as our Queer Museum. 100%. Amazing, Fox. Thank you so much.
Right. Thank you. Your object number two. I'm very curious now. I mean, this was an absolute gem. It might almost be like I've looked at it, you know? Yeah. Yeah, I can't wait. And you can... You don't need a scan. I'll totally just give this to you. So, I'd be really, really happy for this to go to your archive. So, yeah. Thank you. Amazing. Thank you. So, my second item that I wanted to share with you is a flyer from 2013. And it's just a black and white flyer. And actually, I have a color version of it as well. So, I've got one. They're essentially the same flyer. Yeah. Okay. So, on one side, it says Trans Pride. And on the other, it has a lot of details about Trans Pride. So, both of these are Trans Pride flyers.
And for some reason, we saw it important to make two of the same type of thing. And so, I'm just looking at the logo, which is the first... I think 2013 was the first year that we had Trans Pride. And actually, I will be able to tell in a second if we had a march or not. Let me see. So, Saturday, Trans Pride. Yeah. So, this will be the first one because there's no march mentioned. Because we only did that on the second year. And this is a flyer which I designed, which I'm very, very proud of. And with the logo for Trans Pride, it looks... It's kind of like it got a graffiti kind of look. Or like an... Actually, not even graffiti. It looks like an old school calligraphy style, which seemed kind of popular.
It's almost like a tattoo style for 2013. And I know we changed the logo because it actually turned out this logo was not very readable.
It's very exciting because, you know, even now, just thinking back at that first event, like it just was so special. Like it's really hard to explain to anyone what that feeling was like to be able to pull something off in a matter of months, first of all. And to have lots and lots of people turn up. We were expecting about 100 and we had about 1,000 people turn up at the march. It was incredible. Yeah, at the park itself. Sorry, I said march, but I meant park. Yeah, it was great, wasn't it, Roni? It was really special. Absolutely incredible. And what I can also see on the flyer is on the Saturday night, we've got Trans Frau, which is a version of Tron Frau, Roni's Club Night. That's right.
And we decided to call it Trans Frau at the time. And it's at the Blind Tiger, which is, what's that called now? Is that? Oh, Brewdog. Brewdog. It's a Brewdog, yeah. Yeah. So. Yeah, unfortunately. Another venue gone. That's right. So, yeah, it's a really, really special one. And on the Friday night, before the main, you know, I think Saturday's always been the main day. On the Friday, we've got a Duke of York cinema event with trans-inspiring films. That's all it says. So I can imagine it was another, I think my generation, the organization that I helped to set up, put this on. So it would have been a bunch of trans-inspiring short films, I'd imagine. Because I have a memory of walking, I wouldn't call it a march, it was walking from the Marlborough
to the gardens on St. James Street. And it was a small bunch. I just remember, I was really crying. It was very moving. There was like only a bunch of people. Yeah. And so I don't know if it was an official march, but there was some marching happening. You're right. That was. And I think it was year one. I might be wrong. No, you're absolutely right about that, Roni. That was the first year and it was a very unofficial march. We did decide to be outside the Marlborough and we did decide to walk up the street and I don't think they even stopped cars or anything. I think we were walking up the pavement at the side there. Yeah, it was a very small amount of people. And I just remember there was someone playing guitar at the front.
Yeah. And someone would like a clarinet or a trumpet. I can't remember what it was. It was just this one sound, this one note playing and everyone was following behind and it just felt incredibly powerful moment. Yeah, that's right. I remember that. And that was a group. I can't remember the name of them. David, you might remember what they're called. They only ever play one note. And they're awesome. They just go around to different places and do that. And everybody. It was very solemn. You know, it was this one held note. Yeah. And everyone just marched in silence behind them. And it was, yeah, an absolutely incredible moment for the community. But tell us a bit how you got to this moment, though, Fox, with Trans Pride, because I know you and a group of other people kind of lit the fuse of Trans Pride and Brighton.
And yeah, how did that come about? That's right. So I think originally there was another batch of people that were really excited about putting on a Trans Pride event. So the date was set. And then the person who was running or spearheading that whole thing, I think she decided to move to Bristol. So we lost her to Bristol. And then it got to about maybe three months, two-ish, two, three months before the actual date that we had in the diary. And we thought, well, if we don't plan something now, then it's not going to happen. So let's just do it. So it was myself, Sabah Chowdhury, Sarah Savage, Stephanie Scott, and a few other people that decided, right, we're going to put this on. And we really leaned on the council for that.
We leaned on somebody, Jane Babb, who was working at the council. Love Jane. Yeah, she's fantastic. Yeah, total hero. And she just, you know, turned up and she said, right, I'm going to help you to get through all this paperwork and all this rubbish. And Roni, you were really helpful as well, I remember, at the time. And you were like, what needs to happen? What can I do to help? And it was because of people like you that we managed to pull this off. It was. It was. I just remember it's just being a labour of love and everyone was involved. And yeah, it was amazing. Yeah, it was really special. What had kind of made you think, what do you think, because obviously Brighton is known for its kind of pride celebrations, what we always call big pride.
And did you feel that there was a moment or a kind of something that really prompted everybody to go, no, wait a minute, we need to have our own celebration. This needs to be something that really centers trans experience. Yeah. Yeah, 100 percent. I think that, I mean, this is even before what we thought was the tipping point, which actually turned out not to be. So this is when I say the tipping point, I'm thinking of 2015, Laverne Cox on the front cover of Time magazine, us all thinking things were going to get a lot better when they really didn't. But at 2013, I feel like we were still, you know, even to be out, it was a political statement unto itself that, you know, a lot of trans people really choosing to be very stealth.
And we realized there were a lot of issues around trans health care and the safety of trans people. That big pride, as we called it, just wasn't in the position to be helping to deal with because they were at the point where they were almost too big. And it seemed like a very corporate focused event. And I just felt like trans people were still being swept aside or misunderstood even within the, you know, the LGBT community that had a capital G. So, you know, with the event that we put on in 2013, it was something that we just felt we needed to do just so that we could almost connect as a community and see each other and say, you know, and try and work out together what it is we needed, what we wanted from this type of event.
And but it was for me, this type of event. And I know a lot of other people feel the same way about it. It was it was the kind of event where it was so incredible that you could just feast off of that for the rest of the year as well. So it gave a lot of people a lot of hope. And it was it was an opportunity to see trans musicians and performers and see trans films and performers that trans frau as well that you pulled together, Roni. And and on the Sunday, there's a picnic that's advertised on the beach. So it was all very community based. And, you know, I think it was the right focus for what we were wanting to do, because we were just at the point of wanting to assemble and connect with each other.
And, you know, basic stuff, you know. Yeah, absolutely. Do you think trans pride has shaped the trans community in Brighton? Do you think people because the sense is that people then started moving to Brighton because of trans pride? I know it's a the paradox is it's a one week in the year only event, but it feels like that sort of almost brought a critical mass of people to Brighton. It shaped the community and well, I mean, you know, it's built community. Yeah. I mean, historically, we all I mean, I'm not from Brighton. I was born in London and I used to come over to Brighton when I was a teenager because I wanted to be part of any sort of queer community. And, you know, I think a lot of people feel the same way, you know, whether of course you go to trans pride or something like that.
And you might get a false idea that, you know, we're always meeting up like that because we're not. But, you know, just to be somewhere where you feel a bit safer walking down the street. And, you know, it's the same as what, you know, what gay people were wanting to to have back in the day in the 90s and so on. Just just somewhere to feel safe and comfortable. And of course, trans people can be gay as well. And, you know, so there's there's sometimes multiple reasons for somebody wanting to come to Brighton. Absolutely. I mean, I think I always found extraordinary. I think I must have come from the second year of trans pride and just that it felt like a really genuinely kind of intergenerational gathering as well in terms of light.
And you could just see the different kind of like identities and the way that people's kind of interpretations, I guess, of gender were shaped by the society they grew up in. And then how that kind of like how a kind of non-binary identity started to become more prominent within it is just like a beautiful, wonderful thing. And I think of the events that have been cancelled through the pandemic, like trans pride is the one that I'm definitely the most excited about coming back because it is without a doubt my favorite. Yeah, it's definitely the one I've missed. Yeah. In spite of I know all of these things go through difficulties and organizational sort of shenanigans. And we've all been there as organizers.
But but just the energy on the day, you can't really like you just can't beat it. Yeah. Yeah. And I would say that across the LGBTIQ spectrum, trans pride in Brighton has become really the local pride. Yeah. You know, it's like big, big pride, as we call it, is is is a tourist trap. Yeah. Don't tell anyone. But but yeah, it feels like that's a yearly way to a yearly space to connect with a community, really. And and where the real activism happens and absolutely interesting and important conversations and the difficult and uncomfortable ones as well. And I think that's something amazing that's happened at trans pride. Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, you're right. You can be standing next to a, you know, an eight year old trans girl who's supported by a family.
And, you know, on your other side, you might have an 80 something year old trans woman. And it's just it's really exciting because it's there's there's space for everybody. And, you know, no matter what age you are coming out as trans or it's still it's still important and special. And I'm really proud of that. And it is is amazing that that we managed to have the first trans pride in the UK and, you know, the first first event like that. And it's really nice in recent years seeing London really stepping up and putting on trans pride in London, which I think is from a political standpoint. I think that's really where we need to be. You know, we need to be outside 10 Downing Street, for example, like we had the trans rights protest about a month ago outside Downing Street.
And that felt really special in the way that trans pride is down here as well. Just a group of people getting together to say, right, let's you know, what's what's happening isn't OK. We're really suffering because of, for example, that the focus was on the NHS with the lack of support for trans people in many different avenues. One in particular being trans surgeries for trans masculine people being stopped completely. And, you know, I got a letter through the post about my lower surgery and they said, sorry, we stopped all surgeries in the UK because the people who were doing the surgeries have lost their power. And we're not sure when that's going to start up again. Here's the suicide helpline, you know, and that is just absolutely bleak and dark and really unacceptable.
Completely. Yeah, it really is. And, you know, so we have to really, really think about who's who's the most vulnerable members of our community. And when I say our community, I'm thinking about trans people at this point. And, you know, I've been over the past couple of years, I have been looking out for, you know, a few a few people that I'm close to. But, you know, I feel like there's there's always more people that really need lots and lots of support. And of course, we all know that that, you know, increasing numbers of homeless people are often LGBTQIA who might end up in Brighton. And, you know, we're just a big vulnerable group that need to look after each other. So, yeah, events like Trans Pride are really, really super special.
And it also broke my heart that we didn't have a physical event this year when there were other Trans Pride type events going on. But I understand as well for safety and for, you know, for all that. And it takes it takes, you know, a certain amount of time to put on events. And I suppose that's why Brighton Pride didn't happen, because it takes a whole year to plan something like that, at that scale. You know, for Trans Pride. Yeah. Trans Pride takes about six months. Yeah. I mean, it's amazing to all of that just comes from one this little flyer that you made, though. I think it's such a great, perfect kind of object with a fantastic story and all these different kind of tendrils coming off it in all the activisms and various different things that you're involved in.
It's really, really amazing. I think we should probably move on to your third and final object for Micro Museum. Cool. So the third object is not a printed material. The third object is a ring. And I'm wearing the ring right now. It's on my left finger, on my ring finger. And it's a silver band, very discreet. Not discreet, but I just mean it's not lavish. And it was for my protest wedding, which I had with my partner, because we both identify as non-binary. And we wanted to raise attention to the fact that non-binary people in the UK don't have rights. We don't have the ability to be recognized on birth certificates and identification. And when you get married, it has to be between a man and a woman or a man and a man or a woman and a woman and so on.
They're very specific about that. So you can't get married as non-binary, which is unfortunate. And it's something which is making the UK fall behind other countries which have rights for non-binary people. I'm thinking Malta, Iceland, a bunch of other places as well. So this ring, we got married in 20, I want to say 2016. I think it was 2016. So that was about five years ago. And I was with my partner for about a year before that. And we decided that we wanted to start filming a documentary about us and as a gimmick get married. Because we just thought it would help people to understand that we're just regular people that are in love, that want to be able to tie the knot. Which is very traditional, but it was a gimmick in order to kind of highlight the fact that non-binary people can't get married as non-binary.
And I still think there's a whole other documentary to be made. I want to make 100 non-binary weddings where we can get married en masse with a non-binary vicar. And I think it would be really cool to do that as a separate thing. But this was for a documentary called I Am They, which you can check out on YouTube. You have to type in I Am They documentary because if you just type in I Am They, a Christian band and all their songs come up. What? Avoid. Avoid. I know, it's funny, isn't it? So yeah, I Am They. So yeah, it's just a little ring. But this ring means a lot. I'm still wearing it now, you know, five years later. And it was a special event because we had our reception at the Marlboro, which was really fun.
I remember that. Do you remember that? I definitely remember that. Yes. And it was raining a little bit, so I'm really impressed that anybody even turned up. But we had our ceremony just where the fountain is at the Old Steen. And we had our friend Oli, Oli Spleen, who is a performer and fellow non-binary person as well, who was the master of ceremony, who did all the ceremonial stuff. And yeah, it was special. I think, I mean, I wasn't sure how I was going to feel about the day itself, you know, just because it wasn't an actual wedding. But, you know, going through the motions and doing all that, it felt like it could have been. And it did feel quite emotional. My parents turned up as well, which was quite...
That's gorgeous. Yeah, it was really sweet to have them there. And I wasn't sure if they were going to. I just kind of mentioned it. Oh, by the way, I'm getting protest married. Come along if you want. And they turned up or, you know, dressed up really nicely. And yeah, it was quite sweet to just see them there. I think there's something really lovely about it as well. And generally within all your kind of work is just like this celebration of life and ritual and something about this extraordinary collaboration that you have with Al. It was kind of like there is something sort of destiny, you know, like you really found sort of like a creative equal that somebody and that somebody that's really helped drive both forwards, both of your work together.
Do you know what I mean? Like there's a I think it's just something really magical about it and about these objects. Thank you. Yeah. Thanks for recognizing that because I really I really see that in Al. And we're actually very, very different people in some ways. You know, we we couldn't be more different when it comes to certain things. But there's something about the, you know, my skill set and then having our skill set as well. It just really kind of works so well to get get stuff done and get things organized. And I was so good with the admin side of things or production manager and and and also the voice of reason. You know, they're really good because I'm you know, they say that in the world with partnerships, you have balloons and you have bricks.
And I think I'm the balloon and ours are the brick. And I think it's so important, though, to like show trans joy. Yes. As a as a thing that is like powerful, radical, visible. And like because there's so much I think that's so heavy about this experience in the UK, all the stuff that's going on in the media. And that like seeing those demonstrations of joy, which I think comes across in a lot of the work that you do. Absolutely. So, so vital for people to realize that their life isn't necessarily all going to be about struggle and acceptance. It is going to be also about finding joy and pleasure and community and friendship and whatever. Love. Finding love. Yeah. Self love. Yeah, folks. And it's true.
A lot of what you've done is amazing activism and amazing art and amazing, you know, you've been just an inspiring figure for everyone. But but also you, you know, I imagine I imagine for a young trans person, what were you modeling is is possibility. Oh, that's so exciting. And I think and I think that's fantastic. You know, I know young trans people look at you and think. I could be happy. Right. I really, really happy and really wonderful. That's so lovely. And it's such a basic thing, isn't it? It feels so sad that we have the bar so low in some ways. But I think that that has always been the message just to say, look, we can overcome these obstacles. It's OK to talk about the difficult stuff.
But let's let's look at that other side and let's see, you know, what our futures look like, you know, and exciting things like that. Because I think for me, I couldn't imagine a future for myself before I transitioned. And, you know, that that was really tricky. And I really had, you know, it's like I had to go to that really low place in order to recognize that the only way is up after that. And, you know, that that. Yeah. And the lack of the lack of raw models and representation does that to you. You literally are unable to see your future because it's nowhere to be seen. Yeah. But that makes life very, very scary. It does. But, you know, fast forward to now. And, you know, I think that there's just a lot more available to people.
There's you know, there's lots of famous people that are coming out as trans and non-binary. There's there's loads. There's a wealth of books out there, too. So you can you can have these books to either help yourself or to help other people around you to to just understand a bit better. You know, even comedians who have been shitting on trans people for a long time are being shamed for what they're doing and being called out as cheap jokes and cheap shots. So I think we are we're actually witnessing a change that's happening despite what what the mainstream media would have you believe. For anyone who's listening and going, oh, I would actually like to read a book. Maybe maybe I want to know more.
What are your best help help or, you know, find joy book for trans people coming out? I would definitely recommend people to check out anything on Jessica Kingsley. They've got a real mass of of brilliant books out there from academia type stuff to a lot more personal books. My kids book is on there, for example. I've got a kids book called Are You a Girl or Are You a Boy, which I famously gave to Piers Morgan live on television on the day that the book was released. It was just a coincidence that it just happened that way. So I was really happy to be able to do that. And I've got another book called The Trans Teen Survival Guide that's on that. And you don't have to be a teenager to get into that book.
It just helps people who are coming out whatever age or even supporting someone who's coming out. I think every school should probably have a book like that. Then we've got The Trans Survival Workbook, which is a companion guide to that. We can get get involved with your marker pens and crayons and whatever to to really explore your own gender. And another book is The Trans Pride Colouring Book, which I really enjoyed making as well. So I made those two books, The Trans Survival Workbook and The Trans Colouring Book under duress last year after we left our literary agency because we're on the same one as J.K. Rowling. And that was a whole fiasco mess disaster because we just got so much hassle online after we did an open letter after our literary agency wasn't willing to chat to us privately.
So it was it was horrible. But we managed to meet our deadlines and the books came out only a couple of months ago. So, you know, good things happen if you persevere. But I would say, you know, not just my books, obviously, I'm just touting those. But there's there's loads of fantastic books. Any books by Juno Roche, Juno Dawson. The two Junos are fantastic and loads of other people like Monroe Bergdorf has a book out this year. Sean Fay has a book out. Paris Lees has a book out. Everyone's got a book out. Well, everyone's had time to write this year. Yeah, very true. No one's been at the pub. That's so true. Oh, well, thank you so much, Fox, for your wonderful contributions to My Queer Museum.
I'm going to get my 3D printer out to copy your rings so that you can keep the originals. But we've got them in pride of place in My Queer Museum. And it's just been such a delight to have you with us and to talk to you about your amazing activism and life in Brighton. So thank you so much for being with us. Yes. Thank you, Fox. Oh, thank you so much for inviting me. It's been such a pleasure to chat to you both. And you both are absolute legends doing amazing work. So thank you for having me part of this because it's really cool. It's a love it. It's a love it. It's a love it.
So I'm here with our resident curator, EJ Scott, and we've just been listening to Fox's interview. And I'm really curious about what EJ has got to tell us about it. Hi, EJ. Oh, hi, darling. It was so sweet to hear little Fox's voice. Do you know what? Just before we crack on and talk about Fox, I just want to mention that that band that was playing the one note music at the start of the first ever trans pride, I remember them very clearly because that's Brighton's very own, one of the wildest queer musicians. Nick Hudson. Nick Hudson. And Nick, of course, a lot of you will know Melita Dennett's a very big fan, for example, will know that Nick heads a very big collective of musicians that call themselves the Academy of the Sun.
And they've played all over the world in the wildest places. Like, I think they've actually played on a submarine, if I'm not mistaken. They've done some pretty extraordinary gigs. And Nick's really quite prolific. And one of the other things that he did was he started this drone band, and they were called Platform on the Ocean, and they used to go, and it was a big queer collective, and they used to take all their instruments. And it didn't matter how well established you were at playing your instrument. You were all welcome to come along. And they'd go to these incredible locations all over the Sussex coastline, and they would just play one note for hours on end. It's incredible, isn't it? And that's actually what led that trans pride march.
That's what Fox was talking about. So beautiful. You must do a podcast interview with Nick and with Ollie Spleen. Those sort of really underground punk anarchist queer musicians that we have in the area that are so different from, I think, the rest of the country. Absolutely. Listen, something that came to mind when I was listening to Fox talk about their map and what a lovely way it was of remembering all those wonderful queer pubs and bars. Most of them have all sadly gone now, including the Mali, rest in peace, and of course the Harlequin that played such a big role in trans history here in Brighton. Funny thing is I don't remember how small the dance floor was, which maybe just goes to show how big the world looks to me as such a tiny trans man.
I feel you, EJ. I'm with you. I was like, ooh, I didn't remember that. Oh, well, anyway. Everything's extra large. Yeah, it's like huge. That dance floor was big. What are you talking about? Yeah. Anyway, something that really caught my attention, and it wasn't just about the bars and that, was that when Fox was talking about designing the map, and they said it sort of in a passing kind of way, and I don't mean like in a trans passing kind of way. I mean, it's going to be my last mission to step, like I just want to stamp that term out once and for all, because we are not passing in the trans world. It's like it means that we're failing if we don't look cisgendered. Do you know what I mean? Absolutely.
And that we're passing. Yeah, so that's my contribution to trans cancel culture. I cancel passing. Amen. Fox mentioned that they probably designed the map on a program called Quark. Now, for those of you who know your digital design platforms, you probably might remember that Quark Express was like this really hot digital publishing program in the early 90s, and it was huge. It took over publisher, and it was the one that was used by professional typesetters and graphic designers and printers. It was invented in the late 80s, around 87, and it really took hold of the graphic design scene because it worked with the Apple fonts, and right through the 90s, right into the early 2000s, it dominated the design scene.
And it wasn't until Adobe's InDesign came along, which still today that Adobe Suite, you know, with Photoshop and Illustrator and InDesign and all of that, that still dominates the market. But when Quark did their updated version in the early 2000s, it didn't work with the new Mac operating system, and Adobe did, and that's how Adobe got to overturn it. So you might be saying, EJ, what has this got to do with our queer history? Well, interestingly, and you'll notice this the next time that you chundle off to like the Bishopsgate Institute or the London Metropolitan Archives to see a stack of queer zines on your big day out, you'll notice that... As you do. Yeah, right. And, you know, they've got those really big zine collections.
And if you go and look at the queer zines in the 90s, particularly sort of the mid-90s towards the late 90s, you'll see a real shift in the design. What you see is you start to see that the typesetting and the layout starts to integrate some computer technology in it. And it's really reflective of the fact that actually right from the early 90s, late 80s, queers have been early adopters of technology. And that's particularly when it comes to design. And you can actually see that that's literally written into the historic remains of our street culture. And it reminds me of a lecture that I saw with our very own Sharon Webb. You may know Sharon. She's the director of the Sussex Humanities Lab, and she's a lecturer in digital humanities.
And Sharon, of course, Roni, she was instrumental in helping us build the Queer Heritage South archival. I'm sure she was. Right? Absolutely. So it was when I saw Sharon give a lecture actually at the London Metropolitan Archives a couple of years ago now, and she highlighted how unstable digital technology is when it comes to saving our history. So, for example, everyone will remember floppy disks. You can't boot them up anymore, right? Some of us had mini disks, for example. Yeah, gone. Gone. Yeah, right, gone. And if you've got a new Apple Mac laptop, and you might be getting one in the next couple of years, you can't put memory sticks into the new Macs anymore. And so what we're seeing repeatedly is that the new technology means that a lot of our online culture, which is where a lot of queer culture, and particularly in recent years, trans culture, is happening because it's outside of regulated spaces, right?
And if you think back to MySpace, and I was going to say Tumblr, remember Tumblr? They closed down MySpace, right? And they closed down Tumblr. And what happened was it was actually a really important queer space because it was coming off the back of Section 28, right? It was a time, particularly in the UK, when we were really, really, really regulated. You weren't allowed to have queer books in libraries and in schools. And so when this digital space opened up, right, it meant that queers flopped to it and were able to communicate and publish. But when they closed the sites down, we've got this gap in history where we haven't been able to save any of our queer culture from that time. It's completely lost in history.
And so Sharon gave this incredible lecture where she reminded us that the most stable material in the historical archive is paper. That's absolutely right. Isn't that fascinating? And I guess we've had Sharon guiding us through with this process of creating our digital archive because what is happening is that people are using social media platform, you know, closed Facebook groups, Instagram pages, thinking they're archiving, you know, and doing it really carefully. Thinking they're archiving their materials. So there's beautiful, there's some amazing, like, her story pages on Instagram that I'm just obsessed with and AIDS Memorial pages. And, you know, they've got their value because they're really easy to access and you can scroll and read through stories.
But we don't own those platforms. But they're not going to be there forever. No, we don't own those platforms. So, you know, that's a little push for our archive, which instead is going to be hopefully living through the centuries because it is hosted by a big institution, by the university. Exactly. And that's the point I wanted to make, Roni, to everyone listening, is that donate, get your stuff off Instagram. Get your important photos off Instagram and get them on and donated to this Queer Heritage South website because this is an archival website. It's got a back end to it that is all properly, properly archived. It's robust. And this is being built to save this material long term. It's not a fly by the night.
It's something that we own and that will be cherished and will be protected and will be saved. So it's really important that we get this message out to the community that it's got to come into this site if it's honestly going to live on for the generations that are ahead of us. Absolutely. Thank you, EJ. Thanks, Roni. And as always, it's absolutely lovely talking to you. Oh, you're such a sweet heart. Yes. The My Queer Museum podcast is a Queer Heritage South, Queer and Brighton project created by Marlborough Productions and supported by the National Lottery Heritage Fund. For more information about our work, visit www.queerheritagesouth.co.uk. Original music and editing by Olive Mondegreen.
Thank you.
